Jokes or Jabs? How To Embrace Humor in your Relationships Without Hurting Feelings

Steve Alessi:
Well, I was just joking. Yeah, when you were just joking, but you use that as your default, right? Hey, if you got something to say, say it.

Mary Alessi:
Exactly.

Steve Alessi:
Save joking for joking. But if it's a good conversation to have, don't excuse it away with just joking. Saying I was just joking. Yeah, make sure you stay serious, say it. And if you're on the other side of it and somebody said something to you and you see that they're going to revert to well, I was just jok. Maybe you're not as open to receiving their thoughts as you think you are. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Family Business with the Alessi's. I'm Steve Alessi and I'm here with my wife Mary Alessi and we're talking all things family and business.

Steve Alessi:
We want to thank you for being a great pawdience. Appreciate you sharing, liking and enjoying what you're hearing. When we are in the podcast booth, if you feel that it could be an encouragement to other family members, people that you know, go ahead and share like it, share it. You can follow us. We're over 200 episodes, we're going strong as we have always something to talk about and today we got a nice little fun and hopefully funny episode because we're going to be talking about joking, sarcasm and when joking can cause some hurt and not be so funny. Especially as it pertains to a couple, right family dynamics and even for what we deal with because we do work together as a family, sometimes joking gets in there and when it's all in fun and jest, it's nice, keeps things light, takes the load, the pressure, the weight, the stress off of what it is to work together. But sometimes if we're not careful, joking could be a way to maybe say something that you've hidden in your heart and you don't bring it out, but you try to do so, you leak it out through joking. That could be troublesome.

Steve Alessi:
So what about joking? Because you're pretty hilarious.

Mary Alessi:
So I would like to start this off by saying that we have both sides. We've experienced both sides of sarcasm and joking in relationships. The dark side, the dangerous side and then the light, funny, healthy side. My father, everything was a joke, but it was always used to mask something deeper and it was damaging. It wasn't good because he was not honest. He wasn't honest with us and it ended in divorce. My mom and dad and even to the point of one day he was in the hospital and he instead of going, it's so wonderful to see You. I've missed you.

Mary Alessi:
He's dying. And he calls me over and he goes, hey, girl, why don't you come see me more often? Like dad, Seriously. So when we're talking about that level of sarcasm that something that is deeper that some families do deal with, it shows, it's an indicator that there's not honesty and there's not transparency. So the only way you get to say what you want to say is with a joking tone. But our family, we are very joke filled. Like our default is always more teasy. We do not take ourselves seriously. We try not to.

Mary Alessi:
And it makes it fun and funny. And I saw recently again Instagram and their research that friends and groups that can be sarcastic with each other and take it lightly and laugh at themselves and laugh at each other, that's a sign of intimacy.

Steve Alessi:
So I think that joking is a sign of intimacy.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. Like when you can tease each other and joke with each other and the person just laughs. It's a sign of. I know, it's just a joke. It's not about me. It's not you trying to take some jab that you can't tell me. It's just, it's fun, lighthearted, carefree, and it's funny. And that was a good one.

Mary Alessi:
And I'm not taking it so personally. It's not. You're not attacking me. We really are just joking.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And that shows a sign of closeness, which is good.

Steve Alessi:
And interestingly, in marriage, you know, they do say you usually marry somebody that's opposite you. So this is where it could cause some problems because there could be somebody that's more serious in the relationship. There could be somebody that's not nearly as serious.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
And that person is probably going to be the jokester. And when the person that is serious wants to be serious and have a conversation, then the person that is joking all the time can get under their skin.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah. It's a double.

Steve Alessi:
Any sort.

Mary Alessi:
It is.

Steve Alessi:
And it's so funny because we have some friends that. And I don't know why this happens with our friendship circle, but tell me if I'm wrong. Usually, I know. Usually the guy of our friendship circle, the guys like you.

Mary Alessi:
It's true.

Steve Alessi:
And the wife is like me.

Mary Alessi:
Oh my gosh, it's true.

Steve Alessi:
So when we're sitting around not too long ago, we're, we're at dinner and the guy opens up his phone and he's showing something that is humorous and you and him are just laughing about it. Right. And I'm noticing the spouse Is like me. We're like, that is not funny. It's so ridiculous. But that seems to be an issue that sometimes one is serious and one is always, yeah. Lighthearted. And I.

Steve Alessi:
To the serious person, if everything you do is lighthearted and joking, it could be. It can come across like, doggone it. You. You're not carrying your load.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
You're not being responsible. You're not doing your job here. Why is everything a joke?

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
You know, in front of the kids. Why. Why are you saying that? And. And the person that's so serious could misinterpret the joke. So I guess from the beginning, the, the good way that maybe we could try to say to the. I'm going to say to the persons that that is serious because I'm looking myself in the mirror. Don't take it all so serious.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
Gotta lighten up a little bit because it's nice to have somebody that can lighten it up in the right time. And that could be the jokester in your family. And if you happen to be the female and you're married to the jokester, he let him be a kid for a little bit.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
It's kind of nice.

Mary Alessi:
It's.

Steve Alessi:
It's one of those things that keep it clean, healthy, light, not too bad, and more fun. Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Well, I.

Steve Alessi:
What would you say to the person that's the jokester?

Mary Alessi:
I'd probably make a joke. No, I would say that time and place. Be mindful of time and place. Because the jokester personality is always looking to take a tense environment and lighten it up. Because usually jokesters don't like tension.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And they don't like. It's not that we don't like to be serious. We don't like tension. We want, especially when we're in a crowd or with groups of people, we want it to be fun. Like, what's the point of being together with other people or with each other and everything's, you know, let's make it funny. You know, it's like a relief for my personality. But at the same time, time and place, there are some environments where it is not the right appropriate place to make a joke. But then again, that's where my personality goes.

Mary Alessi:
I want to tell a joke or I want to do something stupid the most because it is tense and I want to lighten this up. And. Well, there are times your buddies do that.

Steve Alessi:
Oh, well, there are times when you say things that are so hilarious and it's just you and I, nobody's around. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I wish people wouldn't be able to see this because your. Your little comments are really hilarious. They're funny. Your timing is perfect. And sometimes I think, how come. How come my brain doesn't. How come I didn't pick up on that? I should have said that.

Steve Alessi:
That's me. But you say it. And I resent you for being the funniest of the two, but tongue in cheek joking.

Mary Alessi:
No. What's so funny is we could say the same thing, and if you said it, everybody would go, yeah, Pastor Steve, he's upset, he's mad. Or dad, I can say worse, and everybody just dies laughing. Yeah, it's like they know.

Steve Alessi:
That is not fair.

Mary Alessi:
It isn't fair.

Steve Alessi:
Let me ask you.

Mary Alessi:
I hate it when you try to fall.

Steve Alessi:
Sorry, Alan, are you the funnier one or Leah, who's the jokester?

Mary Alessi:
Yeah, say it.

Steve Alessi:
Well, come on. Alan thinks he is. And that's funny. That is funny right there. No, not true. That's great.

Mary Alessi:
I think he both balances.

Steve Alessi:
So what about our kids? Real quick, like, okay, so jokester or more serious, Chris or Rochelle?

Mary Alessi:
Chris.

Steve Alessi:
Poor Rochelle Chris. She sits in the corner sometimes, just smiles and shakes her head.

Mary Alessi:
She does, but she's got a little dark side too. And she can say funny stuff, but she saves it for not public places.

Steve Alessi:
All right, Moynia or Steph.

Mary Alessi:
Which is what? Which one?

Steve Alessi:
Serious jokester. Who's who?

Mary Alessi:
I would say Stephanie's probably the more goofy one. The more jokes like in a.

Steve Alessi:
Really? No, right.

Mary Alessi:
I think it would be Stephanie.

Steve Alessi:
I think she's more serious.

Mary Alessi:
She's hard to be like you.

Steve Alessi:
Oh, well, she is. I don't want. She is. Moenya can say things that are hilarious.

Mary Alessi:
That's true.

Steve Alessi:
He comes out of nowhere with some very funny things. All right, Gabby. Christian. Christian. Christian short.

Mary Alessi:
Not even a competition.

Steve Alessi:
He's hilarious.

Mary Alessi:
He's funny.

Steve Alessi:
He says it right. Yeah, but so is Gabby. They can go at it, but Gabby is the more serious tone.

Mary Alessi:
They both have a good balance. I don't think either one of them is. One's the serious and one's light hearted. I think they both have a good. You just can't lose that.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. All right, Lolo or the newbie on the block, soon to be in the family. Daniel.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, Daniel's the more funny. Make the joke.

Steve Alessi:
Wow.

Mary Alessi:
For sure.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah, but that's.

Mary Alessi:
You guys agree? They're both that way. Okay, so the. All our producers are saying who? That Lauren and Daniel are both like that. They both have sarcasm and Joking ways. So they have a good balance. So they're so. I think what they have is they don't have such extremes in their personalities. You and I, we married the polar opposite of ourselves.

Steve Alessi:
So true. Okay, so Armando and Anna, what do you think? They're.

Mary Alessi:
They're both the same. They're both. They're both. Oh my gosh. If you've been around them five minutes, they're like a comedy sketch.

Steve Alessi:
How about John and Jackie?

Mary Alessi:
Oh, no. John's the light hearted. John's the one that cracks the jet. But Jackie's.

Steve Alessi:
But they're like the opposite of Armando and Anna in most cases. Well, no, Armando and Anna, they're both super, super light going at it. And John and Jackie are pretty serious. They can both be pretty serious.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, yeah. But John can be dark and.

Steve Alessi:
And yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And drop a joke at the most inopportune times. If you don't know him, you don't realize it's hilarious. But you're like, it's a lot like you. He has your personality in that regard. Except he goes for the joke. And Jackie's like Jonathan. Yeah, it's really fun to watch.

Steve Alessi:
How about Gianni? Angeline?

Mary Alessi:
Gianni and Angeline.

Steve Alessi:
Gianni could be funny.

Mary Alessi:
Gianni's the one.

Steve Alessi:
I think she can be funny sometimes. Yeah, I like that Mel series.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, Robbie, right? Robbie's the more light hearted one.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Oh my God, Melanie.

Steve Alessi:
Don't let me forget anybody here.

Mary Alessi:
She takes things more seriously.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. Who else? I can't forget him. Come on, Mary.

Mary Alessi:
I can't think.

Steve Alessi:
You can't remember who our staff is?

Mary Alessi:
Well, the couples. You're talking about couples.

Steve Alessi:
Couples. What do we got?

Mary Alessi:
They will be so hurt. They already we said Alan and Leah, Marcus and Bonnie.

Steve Alessi:
Oh, man. Marcus. No. Hey, Ap.

Mary Alessi:
Ap.

Steve Alessi:
Vonnie. Vonnie. Yeah. She does.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
Yep.

Mary Alessi:
I think we're talking about two. Who takes a serious moment and ruins it by dropping a joke. Then that's Marcus. He'll drop it because I know that's me.

Steve Alessi:
Oh.

Mary Alessi:
And that's Chris. And when we're together and it's you. Oh my gosh. I feel like with him and I in the room, when we're talking about family working together, immediately we start. We think so much alike.

Steve Alessi:
Okay, ready?

Mary Alessi:
We start firing.

Steve Alessi:
What is Ashley?

Mary Alessi:
Oh, Ashley. She's not a she. She likes the joke. She lightens up. Heavy moments.

Steve Alessi:
She can lighten it up.

Mary Alessi:
Absolutely.

Steve Alessi:
She also cries a lot.

Mary Alessi:
That's her way of going, I can't take this, this heavy moment. So if I can't joke because it's disrespectful. Then I'm gonna cry.

Steve Alessi:
Des and Elton.

Mary Alessi:
Oh, probably Alton.

Steve Alessi:
He's the light hearted one.

Mary Alessi:
No, you think?

Steve Alessi:
I don't know. Des could get pretty funny.

Mary Alessi:
I'm getting big hand signals in the booth. I guess DEZ is the one that takes all the heaviness and makes it light. I don't know, it might be a combination too.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
They're not such extreme personalities.

Steve Alessi:
Karina.

Mary Alessi:
No, she doesn't have the life. We love her, but.

Steve Alessi:
Oh, all these head languages, sign languages.

Mary Alessi:
Back to the serious side of things.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah, I. Andrew, super serious. I love that guy. Yeah, he's down the business 100% of the time. Aaron, Aaron.

Mary Alessi:
Aaron's a big goofball. We love you, Aaron, but you're just a big goofball.

Steve Alessi:
But the sweetheart. Sweetheart, huh?

Mary Alessi:
A goofball is a great thing.

Steve Alessi:
Goofball is a great thing.

Mary Alessi:
I want a grandson. At least one or two that are the biggest goofballs of all time.

Steve Alessi:
My gosh.

Mary Alessi:
They just lighten up the room. And I think I have them. I think I, I think we got some. Yeah, they just lighten up the room. They don't make take things so seriously. But you know, I think we have a good balance after 38 years.

Steve Alessi:
You and I.

Mary Alessi:
You and I?

Steve Alessi:
Oh yeah. Well, 28 years doing the church ministry together with pretty much all these staff members, been with us for all these years. That, that dynamic is cool. I like that it could be light and again, you know, I can be of course the serious one. So I'm gonna most likely be business, you know, and that's hard for people because I am the pastor. So they're always thinking in terms of, well, he's serious and they can't always be light hearted in front.

Mary Alessi:
Right. That's. That comes with the job and the title.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. And I'm okay with that.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
Really, you, however, you, you like the light hearted and that is what keeps some of the fun in life into what we do as a business. So, you know, the lighthearted way, celebrating everything's going to be fun is great. But you and I were joking not too long ago because we, we were talking about which one of our kids could lead the ministry. Well. And we're like, you know, Gabby's got the mindset to be able to do that.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
She really does.

Mary Alessi:
He's administrative and visionary.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. And that is super important when it comes to the leadership. And then Christopher has that, that, that leadership mindset.

Mary Alessi:
Futuristic. Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
He's thinking down the road and so forth. And. And so between those two personalities. So sometimes one is super funny, the other one is more serious and tasking. And. And then you made a statement not reflective of them, but you said, what about yourself?

Mary Alessi:
I said, could you imagine if the future of the church was run by me?

Steve Alessi:
And now. Now that needs to be clarified.

Mary Alessi:
That cracked me up.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Because I know myself.

Steve Alessi:
Oh, yeah. And that was one of those very funny moments. When I looked around, I wish somebody else was in the room.

Mary Alessi:
I know.

Steve Alessi:
I wish I could have recorded it because of the way you said it.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
If I would have said that about you, you would have taken offense.

Mary Alessi:
Well, absolutely.

Steve Alessi:
But the fact that you could recognize it and then say it was really funny in the moment.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
Because at that moment, my brain went to you actually leading the church. And what it would have looked like, we would sing.

Mary Alessi:
All we would do is sing. Oh, gosh, eat donuts.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And put Christmas on all year round.

Steve Alessi:
Gosh.

Mary Alessi:
But people would love Jesus.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And they would love to worship. And it would probably get a little crazy.

Steve Alessi:
All right.

Mary Alessi:
So there wouldn't be a lot of organization.

Steve Alessi:
Okay, here's a problem when it comes to. To joking.

Mary Alessi:
But see, I can say it about myself. So if you say it, it's in sarcastic tones. It's okay. Because I'm cool with knowing who I am.

Steve Alessi:
Yes.

Mary Alessi:
And what I can and cannot do.

Steve Alessi:
And I can. I have to pick when and choose when. I would say such a thing as that to you, so.

Mary Alessi:
Well, wait, wait, wait. Let me say this because this is about working together, Okay. I know where I'm strong, and I know it's not about where I'm weak. It's where I don't have to be strong.

Steve Alessi:
That's a good way to say it.

Mary Alessi:
So I can be me because God paired me with you, and I don't have to step into a role that isn't natural for me. I can be the best version of my natural self. Get better, mature. Not be like those aged cheddar commercials. I love those. The immature aged cheddar commercials. Anyway, that's a whole other thing. Aged cheese that makes me laugh.

Mary Alessi:
But I know that I. I'm the cheesiest. Pick me. Those. That. Those commercials.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Were created by somebody with my personality.

Steve Alessi:
Yes.

Mary Alessi:
Anyway, what I love about Noah, These gray hairs, are because of you.

Steve Alessi:
I've aged you well.

Mary Alessi:
Okay. Actually, the truth is, I don't have to say, oh, I'm weak in this area, and Steve's strong, and therefore I'm a loser. The truth is, I don't have to be strong there, because you are. And I remember not too long ago, a couple years ago, you said something to me. I think I was just going through some real hormonal changes, and I lost a little bit of that joy and that spunk of who I am. And you said to me one time, serious is a heart attack. You went, you're acting like me. Stop it.

Mary Alessi:
And it hit me so hard. What I bring to the world is what God created me to be. The way my brain's wired. Things I've learned, too, from a father who was really funny and a mother who's really funny, but without insult, without meaning, something deeper. I'm just trying to be lighthearted. I'm not trying to hurt anybody. I'm not trying to get a point across to you. But at the same time, you could get mad at me for not being more like you, but that's not how I'm naturally wired.

Mary Alessi:
Just like I could get upset with you for not being more lighthearted, but you're not naturally wired that way. Now, do I help you loosen up a little bit? Yes, but you help me tighten up a little bit. And that's the beautiful part about relationships and caring about the other person, that it's not just about sarcasm. It's about being able to take the joke, but understand that you are in a world with somebody who is just trying to make light of the tension. And in your personality, you would be more prone. It's got to be serious. It's got to be serious. We've got to get this done.

Mary Alessi:
From the moment your feet hit the floor every day, I'm relieved for you that you can take a little bit of a breather and relax. If you killed that in me, that hurts you as much as it hurts me, right?

Steve Alessi:
Oh, gosh, yeah.

Mary Alessi:
So that's why getting this balance is so important, whether you're working with one another, husband and wife, or kids.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. Early on, Mary, I knew my role. Of course, you know, I was doing it before while you were in high school. So that was kind of coming out of college and already involved in my line of work. So all of that always. Or to say I always knew what my role would be. I always knew what it took to be a pastor. That was it.

Steve Alessi:
I knew my role as a man was to lead. I knew then when you and I got married that as a woman, you have leadership ability, but you couldn't be the senior pastor.

Mary Alessi:
Right, right, right.

Steve Alessi:
So that was The, The. My job as a man, my. My calling, our calling, was that because I'm lead my household. Well.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
But you also had very strong leadership g. Gifts that were cultivated in you on the platform.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
So as a pastor, but then also a husband. Sure. I knew that the church and I would benefit most when you are released to be yourself.

Mary Alessi:
That's right.

Steve Alessi:
So when it came to the ministry aspect, I knew your role was to be right up alongside of me and have a, a place to play on the platform itself. So in your singing gift, your leading of worship, your music and so forth, that's never changed. It's always been your role.

Mary Alessi:
I never had to fight for that.

Steve Alessi:
No, that's always been your role. I learned early on though, I can sing. I don't have to do your deal. I can focus on mine. Or as some pastors I've known over the years, they could get up and they would handle. Be a part of all of it. They would not only get ready to pray, but then they would sing. And not only would they sing, they.

Mary Alessi:
Would preach and write the song.

Steve Alessi:
Then they would get involved in taking the offering and all that kind of stuff. And it all was a one man show. It was like, I don't want to do that. I want to focus on what I'm good at or called to. And I could always come along. Like this weekend we sang together and people like that. It was sweet to see, oh, this guy can sing. Well, he really can't, but he can, you know, all that.

Steve Alessi:
So all of that's fun. So I knew the church would benefit if you were in your role, happy.

Mary Alessi:
That's right.

Steve Alessi:
You had to be happy. And I knew I would benefit. Our marriage and home would benefit if you were also in your role as happy. So I couldn't shut down the joking. The joking was always part of where we had fun. Even when we go back and look at some of our honeymoon videos. When we went back and we were looking at the videos, we were just. It was fun and we had that dynamic from the beginning.

Steve Alessi:
This was going to just be fun. Even though I'm more serious, I've had to learn over the years to not take myself so serious. So serious.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
So for couples that are listening today, if you're the serious one, it's a great thing to learn. Look, I can be serious and know the timing of it, but let me not take myself or her or him. If he's a jokester. Let me not make them like me.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
And be serious. Because having two Serious people. It's not near as fun and exciting. And the kids will pick up on that along the way, as will your employees. You got to be so careful. Now, here's where I do find, though. We can get in trouble, and that is when a spouse says something to their spouse, they mean it. But when all of a sudden the spouse that this was said to turns and gets angry.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
Or gets serious.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
What did you mean?

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
Why did you say that? And we revert to, well, I was just joking.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
When you weren't just joking. But you use that as your default, right. Hey, if you got something to say, say it.

Mary Alessi:
Exactly.

Steve Alessi:
Save joking for joking. But if it's a good conversation to have, don't, don't. Don't excuse it away with just joking, saying, I was just joking.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
Make sure you stay serious. Say it. And if you're on the other side of it and somebody said something to you and you see that they're going to revert to, well, I was just joking. Maybe you're not as open to receiving their thoughts as you think you are.

Mary Alessi:
No.

Steve Alessi:
Because if they have to say, I was just joking all the time when they're saying something, maybe they really have something to say to you.

Mary Alessi:
Absolutely. I think that that's watching our kids be married newly and helping them walk through those processes. Even for women and young women, there are times of the month where we can take the joke and we think it's hilarious and we think, you're the funniest person on the planet. That was awesome. You've made fun me and it was great. And then the very next day you say the same thing and I'm in a fetal position crying. And we have to learn to not take ourselves so seriously. But also, in that newly season of marriage, that new season of marriage, you have to learn how to communicate where there are times where joking is appropriate and times where you have to make sure you are communicating well.

Mary Alessi:
And sometimes just stopping before you. You want to say something because you don't want to go there. Or your spouse says something to you and you're going to respond with a joke or sarcasm and you have to stop and go, wait a minute, is there something they want to talk about? And I'm taking the seriousness out of it. And it makes them feel demoralized or demeaned. And just checking yourself in those moments helps so much. You can control it. I can control it. You're sarcastic, too.

Mary Alessi:
And sometimes you miss. You miss the plot, meaning you're not realizing not the Time to joke with Mary.

Steve Alessi:
No, that's not good. My. That's not my strength.

Mary Alessi:
Right. You're. You're. So I'll give you an example. When men get around men a lot, especially other strong men, and I've noticed this with you in the last seven or eight years. I've kind of watched this process. You know what I'm gonna say?

Steve Alessi:
I'm afraid. God.

Mary Alessi:
So when you started men's camps and you get away with, you know, the leaders that. The same leaders every time, and you take, you know, the group of men to the mountain and they have this incredible experience, it's very, very sacred that you don't talk about it when you come back. It's very forged in the fire and in the brotherhood, and it's powerful. We've seen what, three or four hundred men go through this, and it's been powerful. But what I noticed is if you're there for a week and you're with all these guys that you have run this program with, this camp experience with many, many times over, dozens of times that you come back in guy mode, and it takes a couple of days for you to be the Steve that.

Steve Alessi:
I like, the sensitive one.

Mary Alessi:
The one that I like where you're. You guys rib each other. It's like with men, it's. Who can jab each other harsher than the. The last one. Women, we don't do. We don't talk that way to each other. We don't jab and sting and rib and make fun of and.

Mary Alessi:
And almost verbally bully each other. But to guys, it is just. It's almost part of your tribal culture.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
To see who can one up the other one and take it. It's like verbal punches. Who can take it?

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And get a couple of women around you guys. And we're like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I can't believe he said that to you. I can't believe. And it takes a minute when you get home. And I'm anxious to see if some of the other wives would say the same thing for you to kind of take that hat off and not be as harsh with me.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And it's not that I can't take the joke. I'm just not a guy. So it's the same thing in reverse. When I come back from women's camps and I am so estrogen filled.

Steve Alessi:
Oh, my God.

Mary Alessi:
It takes a little time for me to stop talking.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And stop processing. Where it's just all women. So I think the reason that I'm Bringing that up is the importance of self awareness and being mindful of. I didn't marry me. I didn't marry a woman. I married a man. A man who's very different than me. You process differently.

Mary Alessi:
And sometimes we have to stop, take a breath and realize this is not the moment for that. Let me take that hat off. Let me be more tender. Let me be less jokey. I've just been around guys for 10 days.

Steve Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
Or vice versa. That makes sense. Do you see that in yourself?

Steve Alessi:
Well, I know when you. When we're up there, we're usually there for a good week before you get up. So the men go home. And there's like three of us there, and we're trying to get the place ready for you women that are going to come in.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
And you're going to come in with your groceries and.

Mary Alessi:
Like a hurricane.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. And then you're going to want to check out, you know, the. The pantry. Is it organized? The rooms, are they clean? So we work real hard to sure everything is set up for y'. All. And then after we've, you know, we've been under the stress of it for the three, four days where we're hitting it hard as leaders, there's. There's no emotional relief while we're up there or spiritual. We're just under it.

Steve Alessi:
Plus the physical aspect up to get the place ready on tractors, out there, cleaning things up, getting ready for the. The camp. When we do that for a good seven days. And then the women, the wives come in, and they more or less come through the front. You're texting. We're pulling up now, and we know we got to get up and go empty your car with not only your luggage, but then all of the groceries that it's going to take to serve 30 women for three days. You all just don't serve a little. You got everything going on.

Steve Alessi:
All this stuff. We're sitting there saying to ourselves, oh, my God. God, let's go. Right? And the moment y' all come in the door, it's noise, it's loud, it's. It's more activity than we have had to deal with all week long. And the campers aren't even there yet.

Mary Alessi:
That's true.

Steve Alessi:
That's just our wives. So what do we do? We. We can't help, but we're already exhausted. So all the fun, all the joking. Yes. We joked with each other.

Mary Alessi:
We can't pick up that big box.

Steve Alessi:
By yourself now all of a sudden, what's the matter?

Mary Alessi:
You can't drag your luggage in by.

Steve Alessi:
Yourself, get it upstairs on your own. Now all of a sudden we're like.

Mary Alessi:
What are you a girl? Yes.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
So because that's how you've been talking.

Steve Alessi:
To each other, I would like to find out from our other leaders if they feel that with their spouses back and forth. Okay.

Mary Alessi:
So that they do.

Steve Alessi:
Joking's cool. Sarcasm. When can it hurt?

Mary Alessi:
When it means more than the joke? When it's deeper, when it's really not a joke and you don't feel like you could be heard or you can't say. It's in a tone of I want to find healing here and I want to find common ground. And when you don't stop and everything becomes a joke, it's really, get this, a jab. And that's where you have to be so careful because you create such insecurity and instability in the other person. They never know if you really mean what you say. So I also think it's kind of like a spirit of insecurity that can rest in your relationships when one partner always jokes because either they don't feel like they can be honest, they don't know how to be honest, or they just don't. They don't want to be honest about things or have a real mature, open, intimate get together conversation. We're going to work this out.

Steve Alessi:
So a joke can become a jab because it tied unresolved issues going on.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
There's hiding. Somebody doesn't want.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
The other person to know the truth. Yeah, that, that could be detrimental for sure.

Mary Alessi:
And it definitely starts to erode the trust in each other and the safety because you never really know if it's, if it's what you mean. So then what happens is if everything's said in a very jokey, jabby way, the other person is now going to just assume you mean that. So you mean that. So now I have got to start sowing the seeds on that truth because you're not willing to tell me the truth. Everything's a joke. So I'm just going to assume that you mean that. And then the person that's, that can't have an honest conversation will go, well, that's not what I mean. It was just a joke.

Mary Alessi:
Okay, well what do you mean? Because there's this environment, there's this atmosphere that I don't feel safe in because I don't know what truth is. I don't know what honesty is in our relationship. And that's not just in marriage, you know, that can be In a boss and an employer where the relationship's a little off and weird and there's not a serious. Okay, I want to talk to you about how I feel. I want to have an honest. All jokes aside, this is serious to me so that we can get to the bottom of this. I want to keep this light hearted. I want our relationship to be one that we can take each other not so seriously.

Mary Alessi:
We. But there are some real issues we need to talk about here.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Without joking.

Steve Alessi:
And it could get kind of dangerous because if we're not careful that unresolved those issues that you're not dealing with, you can, you can take an offense in your heart towards your spouse and then you're around other people and if you start joking and your spouse is the. Yes. The, the, the person that you're joking about, the brunt of your jokes, then you could be actually taking something out against them.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
So there, there should be a real sensitivity. First off, you never want to put your spouse down. If, I mean, if you say you love them, then for God's sake, lift them up. If you got hard feelings towards them and you're wanting to put them down, then have those conversations and try to get some other voices in your world to help resolve that. Don't, don't stay in that kind of hostility all the time to where the only way out of it is joking. Because then you're putting them down and you're really disrespecting them. And love cannot flourish in an atmosphere where there's disrespect, no dishonor, and then your kids hear it.

Mary Alessi:
Well, because you know what? I think part of the problem in a relationship like that is it keeps you from really knowing the person.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
So I go back to my father. I would ask my mother all the time, even after the divorce, questions about him, and she'd say, you know, I don't know. Like, did he really feel this way, Mom? I don't know. I don't know. Because she could never really get. He wouldn't allow himself to be intimate with himself. He wouldn't allow himself to feel. Maybe there was some deep pain there.

Mary Alessi:
We'll never know. So the problem, when you cloud everything and you mask everything in joking and sarcasm, the people in your life don't really get to know you. So I'll give you an example. I know you. I know when you're joking and when you're serious. You know me when I'm joking, when I'm serious. We also know ourselves and when to Put a limit on it. All right? This is not the environment.

Mary Alessi:
Stop that. That could be taken the wrong way. And in our pastoring and working side by side on the platform and in front of people all our lives, when we first got married and learning that we know each other, but the people in the audience don't know us. So I learned a posture. If you would get up and start teasing about me, I would. I would overcompensate to let everybody know. Not only do I know he's joking, I love that joke. Because I would realize how even if I didn't laugh or if I was distracted or I wasn't listening, somebody could eventually take that wrong and get defensive of me because of something you said.

Mary Alessi:
Well, they don't know you. They don't know me. But I had to learn that I would overcompensate by going, that's right, honey, say it. That's me. Even this past Sunday, we had a moment. It was hilarious to me, but I always get that little bit. They don't know us. To know that this is us, this is our banter.

Mary Alessi:
When you made the joke, we have to have a three minute delay on our stream because we gotta watch out, watch for Pastor Mary because she cusses a little. I thought that was so funny. And you could just see the people that are too serious in the room that don't know, hey, relax, it's a joke. And that's a tough thing in relationships. You have to really know each other.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
You have to spend time enough to know. Ah, he was joking. To know her heart. To know his heart. That I know he was just joking, but it really was at the time. But I know his heart would never be to hurt me.

Steve Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
And that's why you've got to sometimes put the sarcasm on the jokes aside to know one another and to get the real. Stop in the middle of it. Okay. You just made a joke. You don't mean that, right? You're just joking. No, I'm just joking. All right. I'm gonna take you at your word.

Mary Alessi:
Does that make sense?

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes in the right environment, joking about your partner or. Yeah, about them almost can show that you. You can build them up. If it's done in a tasteful manner, you could joke about something and it could build them up. It could cause people to think something positive.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
Not negative.

Mary Alessi:
No.

Steve Alessi:
We used to say to our kids all the time, listen, I'm not joking. I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing with you.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
You know because what is it? I'm laughing at you when you're doing something goofy and silly. I'm laughing with you when what you're doing is so funny that it's endearing. We like it. Let's come together, keep it up. Right? So it's the same when it comes to a couple. There are things that I'm gonna laugh with you about because you're unique. And when I joke about that, it shows people a side of you that they don't know.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
So I let them in to who you are. I do it publicly from the platform sometimes, because they gotta know who we are. Right. And sometimes they may think, wow, they're just spiritual all the time. You know, they don't. They don't laugh. They're not, you know, good people that can know how to have a good time. So I like them to laugh with.

Mary Alessi:
Us, which helps them get to know us.

Steve Alessi:
That lets them see you. That's right. A certain way. Or I'll say something about myself, tongue in cheek, of course, but it lets them into who I am when it's not so serious all the time. It is different, however, if I say something about you and now the people are laughing at you because you're corny or.

Mary Alessi:
Or you just make fun of. You just make fun of me for something and it embarrasses me.

Steve Alessi:
Right.

Mary Alessi:
Which you don't do.

Steve Alessi:
And I think some people can pick up the difference. Most people can.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah, I think so.

Steve Alessi:
So that's when you'll hear them when you say something funny. They'll either all laugh and applaud or they'll sit back and say, oh, I know. Ouch. Right. Oh, man, that was. That was bad. You never. That in itself.

Steve Alessi:
You never want to joke about a person where people will say, oh, that's bad. Yeah, it's like a roast. You don't want to roast them.

Mary Alessi:
No.

Steve Alessi:
Publicly, with your. In front of your kids or employees as you're working together. You don't ever want to do that for the sake of having to score points against them.

Mary Alessi:
She or he can never be the butt of the joke. Never put your spouse or the people you love in the position where they're the butt of the joke. And I think that's important that you roast them. And we. You don't do that. We do have a culture in Miami with all the mixed. You know, people come from different countries and different languages, and things are funny in one language that aren't as funny in another language. But that is something that you see across the board that sometimes you'll be in an environment where one spouse will take it too far or one person will take it too far and really make fun of their, their partner in front of everyone and everyone's just laughing, thinks it's hilarious, but you can feel it that it's not funny.

Mary Alessi:
This is, this is inappropriate. We've stepped over a line. This is just respectful now.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
Because she's the butt of your joke or he's the butt of your joke and that never ever do that to anybody in your life.

Steve Alessi:
So if you're the constant joker, you know, I'm thinking that is great. Really have fun with that. But also know when to turn it off.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
Maybe you don't know how to turn it off. There are some people that just don't know how to turn it off. Have a serious conversation without some kind of sarcastic comment.

Mary Alessi:
It's true.

Steve Alessi:
And every time you go sarcastic when you're trying to be serious, you, you get the person off the scent and now the conversation just moved to something else. And that's not healthy. You can't have a healthy marriage in the sense that you can't have good dialogue with each other and, and have a serious conversation. At the other side of that though is the person who is saying, all right, that, that constant joking and such is, is, is, you know, it's bothering me. We can't ever have a serious conversation.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
And that person, usually one, as I said earlier, that just don't know how to lighten up a little.

Mary Alessi:
And I think, yeah, but I will.

Steve Alessi:
I will say this and then you finish. Okay, I, I, there was a young man dating a young woman in the church. And I, I contacted the father and I said to the father, I said, look, I know there's certain things that you want to see in this young man and I agree with you. However he comes to the table with this intangible ability to bring light, happy, choking feeling into the room when you're together.

Mary Alessi:
Right.

Steve Alessi:
Just don't discount that.

Mary Alessi:
That's right.

Steve Alessi:
I know we want this, this, this when it comes to a son in law stepping into our family, we want them to be a great provider. We want them to be able to make a ton of money, we want.

Mary Alessi:
Them to take care of strategist, administrator.

Steve Alessi:
All that kind of stuff. Right. And that is so important and you need to do that at the same time. However, this particular young man had this ability to lighten it, the load a little bit and joke and you want that person around when you're having holidays and you're playing cards or you're watching a game and you're having dinner, you want somebody that's going to lighten the load, especially if everybody is so serious. So there is the intangibility qualities of humor that is so important in a relationship. And you got to know how to laugh with others, but learn how to laugh at yourself.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah, I think that's huge. Learning how to laugh at yourself, you do that. Well, I was. I remember when I was 16 or 17.

Steve Alessi:
Steve, you do a pretty good job of it, too. Thanks, babe.

Mary Alessi:
I'm getting there. Hang on. And. And a friend of mine said that to me. I'll never forget it. It helped me so much in those pre. Those pre college years. You know what I like about you? You laugh at yourself.

Mary Alessi:
You're a lot of fun. And that was an affirmation spoken over me young. And then when I started dating you, you said it. And I thought, I'm not going to lose that because people like that, and that's a good quality to have. But when we did get into the more serious parts of our marriage, I learned that there's another way to be able to do that, too, because I didn't always have to be funny to be good with myself. And when I was, when we would. Would have issues in our relationship, communicating, trying to figure it out. What I loved that I got from, that I learned from you, is that you can put the joke down, you can put the funny down, and you can say how you feel.

Mary Alessi:
And I. That was so important to me because I was coming out of a household with a father who could not do that.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah.

Mary Alessi:
And if I wasn't careful, I was picking up a pattern that would have become hurtful had you not said, that's cute and all, but let's. Let's have a real conversation, because that is an honesty. And truthfulness isn't always easy for someone to operate in. You have to learn how to do that. And you came from a family that if they were anything, they were truthful. They told each other the truth in the moment, loudly. But then you guys could go off and laugh and joke and let's go eat. Yeah, that was healthy.

Mary Alessi:
That sarcasm, that joking that you would do with me or with our family. Even my mom, who would sometimes in the beginning be so sensitive to you, she learned to lighten up with you. You'd go, oh, come on, Faith, lighten up. I'm just joking. Yeah, that was healthy. And that was such a good mix for both of us. To not take ourselves so seriously. But I did learn a lot of that from you.

Mary Alessi:
How to do it in a healthy way and not be jabby or hurtful with my jokes, because I'm not being honest.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. Well, my dad always said about your dad, he was the funniest guy to hang out with. My dad loved hanging out with your dad. They were buddies because your dad was so funny. At the same time, you're sitting there listening to my dad say that, and you're like, but if you only knew some of the dark sides that we were dealing with. So you can't use dark humor to cover up. No, some things. And.

Mary Alessi:
And it's hurtful.

Steve Alessi:
It really can be. Well, gratefully, where we know that there's a good balance to it. And we got to constantly. We constantly celebrate, lean into the funny parts. And when our family's together, it is humorous and fun and funny. But, you know, maybe one thing I did, I think if you can do this, if you can laugh at yourself, it really does. It shows that you are. You have a healthy self image.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
I. I can't believe this, but it wasn't too long ago that I was 50 pounds heavier than I am right now.

Mary Alessi:
It's crazy.

Steve Alessi:
So I'm 180, 183 right now. When I had my heart attack, I was 230. Wow. That's 50 pounds heavier. And I showed it. And y' all would make little jokes from time to time. And I. I never got so sensitive.

Steve Alessi:
I was never sensitive about my size. I knew it wasn't good.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
But I hated it.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
I didn't necessarily know how to deal with it and get it fixed, because I would try, but I. I never took my weight so serious that.

Mary Alessi:
No.

Steve Alessi:
If you would make a statement or a buddy would come around and comment about my stomach or my face, my cheeks, we always joke about those kind of things. So you got to learn how to not take yourself so serious and be okay. Laugh at yourself. That's a good thing.

Mary Alessi:
But be aware of yourself, too.

Steve Alessi:
Yeah. Be aware of yourself.

Mary Alessi:
Be mindful of you and.

Steve Alessi:
And don't be so sensitive.

Mary Alessi:
Yeah.

Steve Alessi:
And, man, just have fun. Make sure humor is part of your relationship.

Mary Alessi:
Life is just too short. Always be literally like your floor and your. Your house is just nothing but eggshells.

Steve Alessi:
Gosh.

Mary Alessi:
Just don't live like that. You don't have to. You have more power than you think you do.

Steve Alessi:
All right.

Mary Alessi:
Step into it.

Steve Alessi:
Yep.

Mary Alessi:
Talk about it.

Steve Alessi:
Well, hopefully you've enjoyed some good information that is encouraging. You to lighten up a little bit, have fun and appreciate those that are really funny in your world. Thanks for joining us on the Family Business with the Alessis.

Mary Alessi:
Thanks so much for joining the Family Business today. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to follow or subscribe, share with a friend and leave us a review. We appreciate your support and can't wait to have you join us next time because family is everybody's business.