Walls Fall! How to Break Free When You're Stuck in Survival Mode | S5 E12

Intro to Szn 5 Ep 12

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Family Business with the Alessies. I'm Steve Alesi, and I'm sitting here with Mary Alesi, my wonderful wife. It's me. Because family's everybody's business, we want to talk to you today about a guide to finishing well when you thought you were finished. That's it. This is our book. I say ours. My name's on it, but Mary, it's ours. And we're going to be talking about our 42 book that is coming out. And in particular, as we go through our podcast schedule, what we're trying to do is introduce people to portions of the book that then flesh out in their own life. And so the 42 story is the result of a heart attack that I had 15 years ago. 42 minutes, they worked on me, the paramedics, and hit me seven times with the paddles. You coded. Coded, yep. Didn't uh don't like to think about that. I don't, but that's important. And in writing this this particular book, we we came to a chapter that um it's chapter six, and it's titled The Wall. The Wall. And um what it comes down to is um at a certain point when we went through this experience, uh we were on pause. Yes, for a while. We were on pause. Yeah. Our life was on hold, it was in a holding pattern. And um, you got to read the chapter here because it describes what it feels like when you're ready to land, but your plane can't land because the gate's not ready, the runway may be crowded, whatever. And what it feels like to be in that holding pattern is frustrating as it is. You want to get down, you want to go forward, get good on with your life. After a traumatic event like this,

How Survival Mode Develops

SPEAKER_01 2:18

and a person's 42, their own traumatic event, it's natural for them to go into self-preservation mode.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

And to go into this holding pattern where they're just focused on how do I get up tomorrow?

SPEAKER_04 2:34

Yeah, they're not really living.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Right. You remember what that was like for us?

SPEAKER_04 2:38

Oh, I remember vividly. I remember that it wasn't something that I chose every day. It was a result, I think, of PTSD, that you just naturally go into survival mode. And the only thing that matters is the children that you bore and just living, not functioning at a high capacity, not your schedule. You know, it's kind of how the body is wired, though, when when it gets wounded, you know, it happened in your heart attack. It expels all the extras so that the heart can and the the blood can just pump on what's essential. And that's what happens to you psychologically.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Which is why physically, if you have a heart attack, you feel it coming on. Yes, you're you're nauseous. You're sick. So I had to go diarrhea. I had to go to the bathroom, I had to go regurgitate.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Because the body was saying, hey, the blood that was meant for digesting this food, we need to divert it to get into the heart. Yes. So get rid of the food so we can focus on blood.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

And the only all I have is enough energy to help your blood pump to your heart. Now I don't have energy to help you digest anything that's in your system. And it was, it's kind of like that psychologically. All I had, and I can only speak to myself, all I had the emotional capacity for was just making my, making sure my kids were getting up in the morning, everybody was healthy, everybody was fine, their relationship with you was good, that they had whatever they needed, that Christopher wasn't too traumatized, that Stephanie wasn't. So everything that mattered on this big sphere, everything that we, who we'd been wired to be, which was pastors and builders and pioneers and people people, and always having people over at the house and socializing constantly and having events and planning, you know, down the road. We were big visionaries of events that we would have, our conferences. I did not care about any of that. It was almost like somebody went into my brain and rewired it. The things I loved were almost in my mind dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:42

Because they were going to take from the essential thing, which is, and it's subconscious, you're not thinking every day, is Steve going to die again? Because you don't want to think that thought, but it's there, it's present now. It's become real to you. And so just to function living day to day without really the reality of what has just happened in your life collapsing on you, you just have to push that aside and go, well, the only thing that I want to do is these things, these little things, this right here, this all that matters. So uh planning a girl strip or planning a function for the church, an event, or planning down the line was something that was almost for me an enemy because it took from what only mattered.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

And that was you, are you alive today? Are you eating right? Are you how much longer are you going to be alive? Because now what happens after 42 events and those traumatic events is that all the things that you found joy in are really their pressure. Because what if I don't ever have this again to be able to enjoy those things? So now that's the enemy. So all I care about are these essential things, my children, my home, making sure it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

My husband.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

My husband, yes, obviously. That's number one. Yeah. Your health. Right. And my kids, are they gonna be okay? So you unintentionally, whether you realize it or not, there's a little builder out there that starts to build these walls to keep you for what you think is safety because it's what you run to. You have to do it to survive. And it's good. But if you don't stop and say, okay, it's been a year, it's been two years, it's been 10 years, we have to move from the area that we're paralyzed and we have to start living again. And we we tell in the book our story, you had your moment, and it was before I had mine. I was still following your lead.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Because anything that would push you might put you in the danger zone, in my mind. Even if you'd preach too excitedly, even if your face wouldn't get too red.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Help me out here because a lot of this stuff I don't remember other than you said, you talking about trauma will do that to the brain. So you you would you mentioned this before about getting too excited when I'd preached. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

You

Confronting the Fears

SPEAKER_04 7:02

would get excited. You, you know, months had gone by, maybe a couple of years have gone by, and your preaching style, you would get an unction, and you're not like a preach preacher. You're a teacher more more. Not a shouter. You're not a screamer or a shouter anymore. You used to be a lot more demonstrative, but even that has brought your communication skills so much even better now. But at the time, I think you were testing the waters too. And I couldn't get in into your uh body and find out where the limits are. So all I had was what I saw and my fears. So when you would start to preach and get really excited and you'd turn red, I could hardly sit on the front row. I would get so angry at you. Like, why are you pushing yourself physically? Don't get excited. Because I was comparing your excitement and your energy to a high blood pressure and possibly, you know, a heart attack. And I remember you wouldn't correct me when I'd go, please don't do that, because there was even people in the church that would come and go, Oh my God, I can't take it when Pastor gets that way. I just because it we all had a little bit of it.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah. I just thought people didn't like my preaching. Nobody was responding.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

No, we were to scream more.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Calm down.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

Um, but honestly, that was uh that was a big test for me to just go, you know what? Okay, he's gotta be him. He's testing the waters. He's got to start feeling safe in his own body again. Whether you took a walk by yourself or you preached hard, or you pushed your body to a limit that was beyond what I thought was safe, you had to do that for you. And then I had to follow your lead and let go of the fear for me. But can I tell you one of the things that your heart attack experience did for me? It really created in me a compassion that I did not have before for people that really go through stuff. I did not have a deep well of understanding. I had major blinders. You probably did too. But I definitely had blinders. I did not have empathy to the degree that I have now. When people go through something that I don't have not been through and I don't understand. Now, what comes with 42 experiences is not just a heart attack or just a divorce. It comes with layers of understanding

Developing Compassion for Others

SPEAKER_04 9:31

and analyzing yourself. Because I remember asking myself over and over again, wow, I know how I feel right now. Was I compassionate with my friend? Was I compassionate with that lady that I knew from the church? Was I compassionate with that person who came in and shared with me their 42? And I was so quick to go, you'll be okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

You'll be okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

I did not realize.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Oh, you did that? Well, let me tell you what I went through.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

Just so shallow. So shallow. I didn't ever understand what deep water stuff.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Well, you'll get over it.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Or I would just in the moment give some pat answer.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

Because I didn't have time for it. Now I feel it from such a deeper place of not rushing somebody through their process. Because, you know, you and me in pastoring, we got the answers. We got the Bible. We got so you could just be so quick. Well, there's no weapon formed against you that could prosper, honey. You just need to wake up every morning and just sing and shout and just say, putting worship music on, and you'll see that spirit will lift. And they look at you like, are you kidding me? I don't even want to turn on music. What song am I going to play? I'm going through hell right now. And it really did deepen me because I realized what you psychologically go through, what you emotionally go through, and then what you spiritually have to process. So although, again, I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't ever want you to go through it again. I don't ever want to have to go through that again. I am so grateful for the layers of blinders and the veil that I had on my eyes because I am deeper for it. And because we're deeper for it, we have a much greater impact on the lives that God has given us to help shepherd.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

All of that sounds so extreme until you go through something.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

And then you realize, man, I'm just gonna hunker down for a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 11:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

You know, so our particular story in all of this was um we're just showing up on Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Y'all are lucky we're here.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah. Sometimes when you're when you're when you've gone through such a hit like that, yeah, just showing up is enough.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

It's plenty.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

You and in our case, we were supposed to be leading. Um, but for a period of time, the church led me.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Because I couldn't lead myself. I didn't have enough faith to preach for somebody for me to get out of my own way because I was in hunkered down into survival mode.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Fear just overcomes you. No,

Symptoms of Survival Mode

SPEAKER_01 12:04

it's will my life ever be normal again? What if something happens uh a second time, third time? Um, I don't know what tomorrow holds. Uh that's why going to a buddy's church there when we were in Stuart was um, it made me mad.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Because I just didn't know what was going to come next. And I'd look up in praise and worship. That's when I got a bit mad at God, when I would sit there and praise and worship. And um I looked up in the ceiling and it was black. And I thought, you know what? That's about you right there, God. You're so dark. I don't understand you. I thought I'd knew you my whole life, but I why me? Why this? And it was that whole self-pity that comes when you go through a major traumatic experience. You can't help but start to feel, poor me, look at me. And I got I got mad at the pastor up there who was preaching because he was heavy. He had a tie on, looked like he had a stain from his grits that would have fallen on his tie that morning from his breakfast. And I'm like, are you kidding me? He's up there talking about going to another level, and here I am. You know, you can't even go to the next level with a fork. That's how mad I was getting. And I was just so, uh. And it it led to going through a period where you really do put up certain walls in your your life. I'm just, I'm staying right here.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

I'm in my comfort. I got I gotta get comfortable again. I gotta find my redefine my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

You know, maybe through the person's divorce. I'll never date again. Forget it. I'm never gonna put myself in that position. I'm not gonna get married, I'll just sleep with the person, I'll just live with them. You know, I'm not I'm not gonna go on. Never making that mistake again. You know, you you you can't help it, but but you start going through that, poor me, let me let me lock down here and just get by. Right. And that's the natural occurrence to some event that went on. So if we look at our our timeline with what we were doing here at our church, when I had the heart attack, we just moved into the building here. And this building that we're in, again, thankful enough just to get into it, and we were going on with our life, going on with our world. And um the whole wall chapter stems from there being a wall in the back of the church that uh for about three years since we moved in, we're doing service, we're back in the pulpit, but still three years, Mary. I know, you know, people who were visionaries to start a church for three years were still being hounded by this 42 moment.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

And had no vision. Hunker down, waiting for the storm to pass. The storm had already passed. We were in lockdown.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

We really were. We were, we

How the Walls Start to Fall

SPEAKER_04 15:19

were emotionally and I'm sitting in service.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

I can't even tell you who was on the platform or doing what, but I'm in my front seat, and uh I put my arm around you, and as I put my arm around you, I looked at the wall that was in the back of the building, and uh the thought came to my mind we need to bust that wall down to make room, and that's where it hit me in that very moment. Wait, Steve, you're dreaming again. You're not just thinking about today, yeah, you're not just in survival mode. Now you're thinking about expansion, expansion, you're thinking about growth, you're thinking about how to grow to church, how how to impact more people. Yeah, so in that moment, that wall was so symbolic of now coming out of the holding pattern, coming out of my little comfort zone of surviving and just us four and no more, uh, just getting by and putting in the time. That wall was symbolic of the future. And I'm going on, we're going on with the future, our church is going on with the future. No longer are we gonna be contained in this little comfort zone because we went through a hard time.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

It's time to dream again. Yeah, it's time to see the future again, it's time to be able to look past the limitations of the mistake and the failure. It's time, let's go forward.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

And um, that began a process, a new season. Took three and a half years or so. I know. Had that heart attack in June. I think that was about September, October, November of the three years down the road.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

It was.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

And now we're ready to dream again. Now think about it. Mine was a physical heart attack. But what do other people that lose a family and lose an unsaved or lose a loved one to death? I mean, when they they lose their business, they financially are bankrupt. How long will it take them to see the wall come down?

SPEAKER_04 17:48

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

That's where when you talk about us becoming more gracious, more patient, more understanding, more empathetic with people, it it allowed us to see, wow, if it's taken us this long.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

And we were visionaries, babe.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

We started the church from scratch. We we left, we came over with a few spot speckled sheep, and we we were cool. We we didn't stay in a rented facility for our church. We bit off a big five million dollar complex that we were buying. We were visionaries, we yeah, but to put that on pause, that vision on pause, if that's what's happening to us as leaders and visionaries, how long does it take others to be able to finally dream again? Yeah, and that analogy in itself has helped me even with somebody that I knew, their spouse was unfaithful. And uh, I was talking to him, and he was just Steve, I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive her. And I'm like, you know, I understand it. Yeah, I understand it, you're hurt. Your your heart's been broke. Yeah. You want to repay evil for evil. I know you tempted man to go cheat on her because she cheated on you. I know that. It's retaliation. You you you want to get back. I got it. And I know the last thing you are feeling right now is love.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

And I'm having that conversation with him. But then I said, you know, man,

Forgiveness, Fear and Moving Forward

SPEAKER_01 19:40

there will come a day that you're gonna love her again. It took me three and a half years or so to handle a physical heart attack. Now, your heart that's been broken by her decisions. If you just hang in there, man, right, go ahead, stay in a little self-preservation mode. Go see the counselor, go get yourself healed, go figure out a way to deal with the anger and the trust issues and and the forgiveness. Go figure out a way to do it. I'm praying for you, I'll talk with you. Get a counselor in there. Just whatever you do, don't quit yet.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Right.

unknown 20:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Because if you just hang in there long enough, you're gonna start dreaming again and you're gonna see the future, and the future is going to hold. You'll travel again, you'll be in a hotel together again, you'll buy another house again. Grandkids are coming again. You'll see the future. It's true, but you just gotta give yourself time to heal. Yeah, took me three years. How long is it gonna take you? And that was such a moment, and to this day, when I talk to that person, they bring that up because they said, You're right, it took me a bit, but I'm so thankful I didn't make any choices while I was in that holding pattern that would have caused me so much future hurt. Because what he had to learn is, yeah, he thought he was finished. Yeah, right, but he didn't quit. And now he's finishing so well. And when I see pictures of him hanging out with all the grandkids and the husband and wife, him and his wife are together and they're traveling and they're doing things together, I'm like, he came through his 42 the right way. Right, and so will those hearing us today. There's walls, and those walls will eventually come down, they're up for a bit.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Yeah. And it's okay. It's okay that they're up for a bit. I I like the the counsel you gave him is such wise counsel because when you do go through something that you did not expect to happen in your life, and now you're dealing with it, and there's a lot of fear that's attached. And you know, when we talk about fear, one of the things that helped this helped us understand was a different kind of fear. Not the fear of something that may happen. That's a completely different fear than something that does happen. Those are two different fears.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

So when the fear of something that might happen, it's a ghost, it's a shadow, versus the fear of something that does happen.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

That's a different fear. That's a real fear. That's oh my goodness, that happened.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

My worst nightmare happened. My the scariest scenario that if I had thought about gave me chills and shivers. Oh God, never let that happen. Okay, it happened. That happened to me. That's a different fear than the possibility of something happening. So when you've got to process the fear of reality, that fear that paralyzes you, that builds walls that people need to be very empathetic with, that, like I said, this experience helped us see. We got acquainted with that level of fear.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:27

It causes you to say, not leave people alone. But if you could encourage people in those situations that are really going through it, just don't give up hope. Steve, listen, this is a serious podcast, probably more than we thought it was going to get. But here's the truth, here's the reality. There are people right now in 2023 that are killing themselves because they're in that holding pattern. And they don't believe that the walls can come down and that the sun will shine again. They don't believe it. The darkness that has invaded the planet emotionally in people is at an all-time high. All you got to do is look at the numbers.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

It's severe. And when things happen in a culture that says, oh, you, you know, we know so much. We're such a knowledge-filled culture. We have our iPhones. They can, you can in a second get a resource of how to keep your marriage together or how to, you know, marry the right person and you fail. You know, social media, everybody is putting up images of perfection. And here I am, I'm failed. No, everybody fails. Everybody goes through difficulties. Nobody's life is perfect. And if they're presenting a perfect life, they're lying to you. So nobody is perfect. So when you go through something that is really traumatic and difficult that lands you in a place that you don't want to be in, you never thought you would be in, and you've never been in before, the same thing that you said to your friend, the sun will shine again. It's not going to shine right now. I don't know when it's going to shine again. Yeah. But no, it will. Don't give up. What does don't give up look like? Don't quit going to church. Don't leave your spouse. Stay in it. Don't leave the situation and the circumstance. Certainly don't harm yourself. Don't retreat. Just stay still. Stay right where you are. And as time goes on, I mean, we're I'm thinking of a couple right now that lost their beautiful son. You know? And how you see them, they'll come to church, but you can also see the days that are harder than other days.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

And all they really need to do for right now to get them through the season of darkness is to just wake up every day and put one foot in front of them every day. When they can get to church, get to church. We call them, how are you doing? We love you. That's it. Yep. And with time, not only will they start healing, but their bodies are going to heal. Their minds are going to heal. Fear is going to fade. And with time, just don't do anything that's permanent in that season. We could have easily said, building programs, kill pastors. We quit.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

We quit.

SPEAKER_04 26:19

Go get a job somewhere else. Seriously. Yeah. Because I wanted my husband more than I wanted the church.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Just being honest. On the other side of that wall was about $1.7 million that needed to be raised.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Okay. On the other side of that wall was more pressure of the same kind that caused a heart attack.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:35

More of the same.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah. The vision was, oh, great, bring the wall down. But then the reality is, oh my God, that's going to be a lot of work.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

Well, because we what we lived gave us one circumstance. Now you're saying, let's do it again. But you just have to make a decision to say, well, I can't stay here.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

You know, we both had to say that. This isn't good for our kids. We're creating a reality that's not really us. It's not who we are. We're not giving our kids the best of who we are, which is we're not fearless, but we face our fears. And we face what God's calling us to do to keep building for the future our original calling. We have to go back to that. And that's really what that wall represented. I I remember when you did that, when you put your arm around me, and I was not thinking at all, that's what you were going to say. And when you did that, you said, that wall's got to come down. I thought my first thought was, oh God, no. No, we don't need that. And then my follow-up thought was, I'm going to follow his lead like I did before. If he's feeling good and he's feeling strong, and he feels like this is a mountain he can take, I'm going to get back in position, go for it, babe. I'm not here for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Well, going through all of these things and dealing with the walls and struggling with how do I get ahead? And man, I'm depressed. I went through this. This is crazy. Sure makes me understand Noah in the Bible. Good Lord. And that man's on a ship for how long he builds that poor ark. And after he's building it, everybody's making fun of him. The rains come, all hell breaks loose, boat finally stops. He gets off and goes and gets drunk. It's a great story, man.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

It's funny how the Bible doesn't leave that out.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

No, let him know. Doesn't edit out the Bible got the fleshly nature of Noah. The Bible didn't get upset with him getting drunk, got upset with his one son uncovering his drunkenness. And bless the one that covered him. Even God said, Poor Noah, just let him. No, because you know He's been through a lot.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

God is a whole lot more empathetic with the sins of man and the weight of the circumstances and the mistakes. He is a lot more sympathetic with us, his own, as we are with one another, and as we are with ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:05

God is not a perfectionist from that perspective.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Oh gosh. So when we did decide to go ahead and bring down that wall, we got people in the church busy and we allowed them all to help by taking a sledgehammer and pulling things down. And we sang that song KP. What was it? A song.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

We're gonna see all the walls come down. We're gonna see life rising from the ground. I believe.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

It was a good song. It's uh it was very prophetic. It was. Man. And we did. We believe in finishing well. We believe in not being limited by what's happened to us in the past that caused us so much pain and so much hurt and so much confusion. Even though we can have a great relationship with God, sometimes life is cruel. And life comes at you pretty fast. And when it does and bowls you over and you go through your 42 moments, uh remember you can get back up. Give it time. The sun will come out tomorrow. Oh, just give it time. Weeping may endure for the night, but joy comes in the morning. You will dream again your future that you may have in question right now. You'll see it realized if you just commit to finishing well. Well, we hope you encourage today's podcast. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

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